skillissuer@discuss.tchncs.de
on 16 Jul 2024 22:21
nextcollapse
ah yes so he’s up to making aircraft carrierfloating libertarian treehouse rube goldberg mad max platform out of pykrete
One idea for the bottom of the iceberg is to erect a grid of airtight barriers on the bottom of the berg, with cells a few dozen meters wide and a few meters tall and blow air bubbles into them
this makes this grid having to support several tons of buoyancy force, it will have to be airtight but also its connection to ice will have to be so, and ice will probably deform over time. did all of these motherfuckers dropped out of middle school?
dgerard@awful.systems
on 16 Jul 2024 22:37
nextcollapse
look, i think it’s up to all of us to have the imagination and foresight to support roko in this fabulous and important endeavour. we could lure patri friedman onto the same ice floe, for example, by the simple expedient of putting up a yellow and black flag with “no steppy on snek”
o7___o7@awful.systems
on 16 Jul 2024 23:52
nextcollapse
It would give the orcas an opportunity to do the funniest possible thing
skillissuer@discuss.tchncs.de
on 17 Jul 2024 00:53
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nah, he’ll never get there
all he can possibly do is to beg for money from givewell or whatever it’s called, then release a shitcoin to fund it, run a few prediction markets and hopefully at some point money cops will catch him
V0ldek@awful.systems
on 16 Jul 2024 22:39
nextcollapse
it will have to be airtight but also its connection to ice will have to be so
just flex tape it bro why you so negative
mkwt@lemmy.world
on 16 Jul 2024 23:38
nextcollapse
As Tom and Ray would say (rest in peace), it’s too much course 8.
(Course 8 is the catalog number for the physics department at MIT.)
korydg@awful.systems
on 17 Jul 2024 22:43
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You’ve tried cubes of time, but have you tried cubes of time, on ice?
blakestacey@awful.systems
on 16 Jul 2024 23:11
nextcollapse
There is an entire second Earth right here on Earth.
“… Mister Bond.”
dgerard@awful.systems
on 16 Jul 2024 23:12
collapse
“I sunk your battleship thirty-five minutes ago.”
mii@awful.systems
on 16 Jul 2024 23:15
nextcollapse
Ok, seriously, this is just Mortal Engines fan-fiction in an oceanpunk AU.
YourNetworkIsHaunted@awful.systems
on 17 Jul 2024 01:31
collapse
No, see that would be way cooler than this.
skillissuer@discuss.tchncs.de
on 16 Jul 2024 23:25
nextcollapse
i like how he started on the premise that iceberg is cheap real estate, then okay let’s cover underside with thermal insulation, and also reinforce top with freshwater ice, that freshwater will be have to be transported there and then frozen in place, and also let’s cover top with expanded glass and concrete, and let’s put wood pulp and basalt fiber rebar in ice, and
all while never counting beans, and any and all numbers are entirely pulled out of his ass
dgerard@awful.systems
on 16 Jul 2024 23:45
nextcollapse
even on lesswrong the guy going through his numbers for how concrete behaves
Soyweiser@awful.systems
on 17 Jul 2024 14:27
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Roko even said the ‘I think agricultural waste products like straw can be substituted for sawdust so maybe you are paid to take it off their hands.[emph mine]’ line. which is always a good sign when somebody is trying to the economically feasible math.
skillissuer@discuss.tchncs.de
on 17 Jul 2024 16:07
nextcollapse
yeah let’s just divert entire global straw output so that Roko can build his libertarian crypto paradise
also straw is not a waste, wtf is he thinking
AllNewTypeFace@leminal.space
on 17 Jul 2024 16:11
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Maybe he was thinking of straw that has already been through the horse?
Ahh, horseshit. It is a key libertarian building block.
Soyweiser@awful.systems
on 18 Jul 2024 13:35
collapse
New form of pykrete made out of manure and ice. Eventually the Icebertarians will get use to the smell (an AI company is also working on a CRISPR fix), and with the problems of excessive manure and thus nitrate in places like the Netherlands, you are paid to take it off their hands! Win win!
o7___o7@awful.systems
on 18 Jul 2024 14:17
nextcollapse
A Turdburg on a turdberg. Not be a shining city on a hill, but it might have high albedo.
AllNewTypeFace@leminal.space
on 18 Jul 2024 14:38
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Oh, it would shine. Like shit on a barn door.
o7___o7@awful.systems
on 18 Jul 2024 17:20
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heh
cstross@wandering.shop
on 18 Jul 2024 15:57
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@Soyweiser Why not make pykrete out of neoreactionaries?
AllNewTypeFace@leminal.space
on 18 Jul 2024 16:05
nextcollapse
They’d have to classify a proportion of themselves as subhuman first, and then they could make history’s most literal implementation of the mudsill theory.
Soyweiser@awful.systems
on 18 Jul 2024 17:30
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Time to Cronenberg it up. Anybody want a new appartment in Roko the skyscraper? Long live the new flesh! No pets!
o7___o7@awful.systems
on 18 Jul 2024 17:33
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All hail the new flesh! No pets!
I’m ded
Soyweiser@awful.systems
on 18 Jul 2024 17:35
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Next time I’m first going to look up the quote (which is apparently 'Long live the new flesh!") before posting, but you have immortalized my error. :)
V0ldek@awful.systems
on 17 Jul 2024 20:43
nextcollapse
It’s hard for me to even imagine a more apt description of a privileged silver-spoon moron than thinking straw is waste and people would pay you to get rid of it.
Human minds are amazing, I can’t even hypothesise what thought processes, if any, led him there
Soyweiser@awful.systems
on 18 Jul 2024 13:31
collapse
And even if it was waste, that you are planning to build megastructures with it makes it no longer waste very quickly, and as there was no demand for the product before and now it is in high demand, the price will prob do some very interesting things. A suggestion was made to use sugarcane bagasse which has no other use it seems. But that would then also quickly get a use and increase in price, which would also do things to the price of replacement products, like sawdust, or straw. And I assume that if the price of straw in the world rises a lot due to this megaconstruction a lot of farmers would be unhappy, but yeah fuck the poor countries.
ibt3321@lemmy.blahaj.zone
on 18 Jul 2024 03:40
collapse
Even if it was waste, the sellers would notice and start charging for it. Libertarians have a fucked up definition of what ‘waste’ also with bitcoin mining.
skillissuer@discuss.tchncs.de
on 18 Jul 2024 10:31
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straw goes for something like $70-100 per ton (in poland; depends on region and other factors) sawdust is probably cheaper
jonhendry@awful.systems
on 18 Jul 2024 03:25
collapse
Just program the godlike AI to turn everything into pykrete instead of paperclips.
Problem solved.
BigMuffin69@awful.systems
on 16 Jul 2024 23:35
nextcollapse
This is literally the dumbest shit I’ve read all week and it’s been a pretty dumb week. I’m afraid I have to diagnose Roko with having the brain scamblies. There is no cure.
Soyweiser@awful.systems
on 16 Jul 2024 23:45
nextcollapse
YourNetworkIsHaunted@awful.systems
on 17 Jul 2024 01:30
nextcollapse
He does mention that you’ll need a military to defend your borders, though of course he’s more concerned about opportunistic “legacy governments” taking his iceborne super country away from him rather than pirates showing up to fish anything valuable out of the sea as it all predictably and rapidly falls apart.
Soyweiser@awful.systems
on 17 Jul 2024 12:58
collapse
Yeah this new ‘military’ setup will also quicly lead to them being seen as pirates by ‘legacy governments’ (who tend to love armed groups showing up, esp near any shipping lanes (if he wants to live anywhere away from the damaged ozone layer (the south of the south pacific seems somewhat empty at least). And the various groups of people in this new libertarian utopia (I’m going to assume it is libertarian) will surely not start preying on each other, or those nice ‘legacy’ shipping going round. At least 4 people will call themselves Ragnar Danneskjöld.
skillissuer@discuss.tchncs.de
on 17 Jul 2024 13:43
collapse
Soyweiser@awful.systems
on 17 Jul 2024 14:14
collapse
I meant more like treating the icelibertarians like the Houthis and tossing a few missiles into the iceskyscrapers than that kind of what I assume is USA military fanwank video.
AllNewTypeFace@leminal.space
on 17 Jul 2024 14:39
nextcollapse
Who needs missiles when a few parabolic mirrors will do the job?
jonhendry@awful.systems
on 18 Jul 2024 03:28
collapse
A million red-hot tungsten balls.
skillissuer@discuss.tchncs.de
on 17 Jul 2024 16:44
nextcollapse
Houthis have been bombed with every weapon at saudi air force disposal for almost decade by now
Soyweiser@awful.systems
on 18 Jul 2024 13:21
collapse
Yes, and they are still around, same with the Taliban, but for some reason I doubt the Icebertarians will be that anti-fragile. As soon as the first Icebertarian becomes homeless and sets up a tent they will bail. “I’m fine with them doing drugs in their homes, but now they are doing drugs and not even coding javascript! I cant bear it!”
YourNetworkIsHaunted@awful.systems
on 18 Jul 2024 05:29
collapse
Nah, that would only happen if they touched our boats.
Or if we thought they touched our boats.
Or if something wholly unrelated happened to one of our boats nearby and it was politically convenient to say they had touched our boats even if they didn’t actually have much reason to at the time.
o7___o7@awful.systems
on 17 Jul 2024 16:38
collapse
Yes, good plan, the ozone layer hole craves more skin cancer sacrifices.
Sun can’t get you if you never go outside taps noggin
Soyweiser@awful.systems
on 17 Jul 2024 19:35
collapse
Ha, do you think The Hole didn’t think of that? It consumes!
skillissuer@discuss.tchncs.de
on 17 Jul 2024 03:07
nextcollapse
by the way, when was the last time when rats got their lives or limbs in danger by testing their stupid ideas? instead of, you know, asking someone who knows beforehand? probably something weird happened to people testing these anti-cavity bacteria, but nothing really serious i guess. that was maybe half year ago or so
Amoeba_Girl@awful.systems
on 17 Jul 2024 10:19
nextcollapse
Look, I already knew Roko was a moron but this is outrageous.
swlabr@awful.systems
on 17 Jul 2024 11:04
nextcollapse
See what’s really fun here is that once again the libertarians are blissfully unaware of their natural predator: bears.
barsquid@lemmy.world
on 17 Jul 2024 15:29
collapse
This is so funny. Every time they are given what they want the infrastructure crumbles to the point of being dangerous, and then the bears come to finish them off. Just ordinary bears are deadly enough for libertarians to LARP a Jurassic Park speedrun.
swlabr@awful.systems
on 17 Jul 2024 15:41
collapse
I guarantee that if there is a libertarian space colony, all of their life support systems will be contaminated by mutant tardigrades (aka water bears). The libertarians yearn for destruction by bears.
dgerard@awful.systems
on 17 Jul 2024 16:39
collapse
swlabr@awful.systems
on 17 Jul 2024 17:03
nextcollapse
Wow, amazing story. Same thing actually happened to a friend of mine
(But srsly, I enjoyed that.)
lennivelkant@discuss.tchncs.de
on 18 Jul 2024 14:18
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That was a good read
Tap for spoiler
I did predict the twist, when they mentioned a completely safe quarantine zone. Nothing ever goes perfectly well with stories built on apocalyptic premises. But reading it still gave me chills. Excellent delivery.
sc_griffith@awful.systems
on 17 Jul 2024 11:32
nextcollapse
extremely funny that none of his interlocutors bother asking what his engineering background is
skillissuer@discuss.tchncs.de
on 17 Jul 2024 13:30
nextcollapse
careful with questions about formal education like this, you might offend Dear Leader
Soyweiser@awful.systems
on 17 Jul 2024 14:10
collapse
Don’t worry Roko has the support of the best mind of our generation behind him: Roko: “Elon is absolutely right that Tunnels[sic] would solve traffic”
E: More on the best minds, somebody in the comments : “‘it[a country selling their land to a new country] has happened’ is far less rare than CREATING the land, which has never happened.”. Are we a joke to you? [this sentence was translated from Dutch].
barsquid@lemmy.world
on 17 Jul 2024 12:16
nextcollapse
Yes, we’ve had vertical cities with economic class strata, but have we had frigid vertical cities with economic class strata? This is an incredible innovation in the dystopian novel genre.
cstross@wandering.shop
on 17 Jul 2024 12:25
nextcollapse
(I did NOT expect to learn that Roko is ripping off J. G. Ballard for ideas.)
mawhrin@awful.systems
on 17 Jul 2024 12:43
nextcollapse
also, to some extent, poul anderson’s war of the wing-men.
Soyweiser@awful.systems
on 17 Jul 2024 14:31
collapse
N = 2 (this and judge dredd) right now, but was there a rise in fiction in the 70’s/80’s where they did the ‘people live their whole lives in a skyscraper and didn’t come out’ thing? Is there some underlying societal fear I’m not super aware of? Or am I making too much of two examples?
AllNewTypeFace@leminal.space
on 17 Jul 2024 14:39
nextcollapse
That’d probably be Ballard trickling down into pop culture
grumpybozo@toad.social
on 17 Jul 2024 15:16
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@Soyweiser It was a bigger theme earlier: 50s/60s. Asimov, Bradbury, and I think Heinlein all used it.
Soyweiser@awful.systems
on 17 Jul 2024 16:38
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I recall reading quite a few of those, but don’t recall any specific building ones, esp not which much themes of ‘people stop interacting with the outside world’.
AllNewTypeFace@leminal.space
on 17 Jul 2024 16:43
nextcollapse
The granddaddy of those would be E.M. Forster’s The Machine Stops, from 1909
grumpybozo@toad.social
on 17 Jul 2024 17:23
nextcollapse
@Soyweiser Not as a primary focus, but as a background fact, e.g. Trantor in Foundation.
YourNetworkIsHaunted@awful.systems
on 18 Jul 2024 05:26
collapse
The Caves of Steel was basically named for it, with a major plot point revolving around the fact that everyone is too agoraphobic to have committed the murder because of generations spent living in giant domed cities kept isolated from the natural world.
adrienne@awful.systems
on 28 Jul 2024 00:38
collapse
Also James Blish, in the of-their-time-but-still-worth-reading Cities in Flight series.
CodexArcanum@lemmy.world
on 17 Jul 2024 15:41
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It was (is) a real thing that archtitects have thought about. In 1969, the concept was named arcology. I learned about them through SimCity 2000 which helped popularize the concept.
I think, culturally, it’s an offshoot of Modernist thought. One trend in modernism is that science can be used to find more efficient ways to live, and that science will lead to human dominion over all natural processes. Some thinkers took this to one (terrible) conclusion and wondered about if people could live, work, and socialize all within one building; one efficient and contained (and human controlled) space.
Real skyscrapers were often designed with this in mind, and we still see the echoes of it today with concepts for Mars colonies and hanging-building mega-cities in Tokyo.
dgerard@awful.systems
on 17 Jul 2024 15:49
nextcollapse
Soyweiser@awful.systems
on 17 Jul 2024 16:38
collapse
Yes I know about archologies, but those are all just concept ideas, which is interesting that it lead to these dystopian ideas. I was wondering if there was more to it than just that.
Amoeba_Girl@awful.systems
on 18 Jul 2024 01:55
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Look up also extremely influential architect and noted fascist Le Corbusier.
The building also incorporates shops including an architectural bookshop, a rooftop gallery, educational facilities, a hotel that is open to the public, and a restaurant, “Le Ventre de l’Architecte” (“The Belly of the Architect”).
It was a huge trend after the war for a variety of economic and ideological reasons.
jonhendry@awful.systems
on 18 Jul 2024 03:36
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Welcome to Alcor Towers.
jonhendry@awful.systems
on 18 Jul 2024 03:34
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Someone send Roko a copy of James K. Morrow’s novel “Towing Jehovah” which involves the enormous corpse of God being towed, by a (much smaller) oil tanker, from near the Equator north to a fijord for burial in a cave. (I lost interest toward the end).
It’s not strictly relevant - I don’t think the crew sets up on the corpse itself - but it’d be fun to watch where Roko’s head goes.
“Step One: We kill God. Step Two: We harvest the cadaver, plastinate it, and build our city.”
V0ldek@awful.systems
on 18 Jul 2024 21:01
collapse
“Step One: We kill God
I’m in for that. He can do with the corpse whatever he wants after, as long as I don’t have to see it.
gerikson@awful.systems
on 18 Jul 2024 13:47
nextcollapse
Roko is of course begging the question, and the premise he is wrong about is that there is a sizable population willing to relocate to a floating iceberg, instead of living in an existing country.
Consider what the proposed citizens have to consent to:
paying for the R&D required to implement the technical solutions Roko envisions, along with the continued higher maintenance costs
paying higher wages for the people who are supposed to do all the boring menial jobs in this floating city, on par with existing cities
paying higher daily cost of living for everything from food to building supplies to luxuries to entertainment that have to be imported
being at the mercy of “legacy governments”, many of whom possess navies capable of everything from interdicting the food supply, to literally undermining the city from below, to actual assaults and airstrikes
paying higher prices for insurance of their lives and dwellings and possessions because of all the above
Amusingly the solution for a libertarian city is a megastructure project probably only a rich nation is prepared to pay for.
AllNewTypeFace@leminal.space
on 18 Jul 2024 14:40
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On the other hand, no age of consent laws
V0ldek@awful.systems
on 18 Jul 2024 21:00
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Roko: I’m in.
geoglyphentropy@mstdn.social
on 18 Jul 2024 16:12
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@dgerard Seasteading 2.0 - with even *more* shit than version 1.0!
threaded - newest
ah yes so he’s up to making
aircraft carrierfloating libertarian treehouserube goldberg mad max platform out of pykretethis makes this grid having to support several tons of buoyancy force, it will have to be airtight but also its connection to ice will have to be so, and ice will probably deform over time. did all of these motherfuckers dropped out of middle school?
look, i think it’s up to all of us to have the imagination and foresight to support roko in this fabulous and important endeavour. we could lure patri friedman onto the same ice floe, for example, by the simple expedient of putting up a yellow and black flag with “no steppy on snek”
It would give the orcas an opportunity to do the funniest possible thing
nah, he’ll never get there
all he can possibly do is to beg for money from givewell or whatever it’s called, then release a shitcoin to fund it, run a few prediction markets and hopefully at some point money cops will catch him
just flex tape it bro why you so negative
As Tom and Ray would say (rest in peace), it’s too much course 8.
(Course 8 is the catalog number for the physics department at MIT.)
Besides, it’s been then tried already: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Habakkuk
Well, he’s a little fuzzy on the concepts of halves and wholes, but let’s hear him out on colossal geoengineering projects.
the sequel to time cube, ice cube
You’ve tried cubes of time, but have you tried cubes of time, on ice?
“… Mister Bond.”
“I sunk your battleship thirty-five minutes ago.”
Ok, seriously, this is just Mortal Engines fan-fiction in an oceanpunk AU.
No, see that would be way cooler than this.
i like how he started on the premise that iceberg is cheap real estate, then okay let’s cover underside with thermal insulation, and also reinforce top with freshwater ice, that freshwater will be have to be transported there and then frozen in place, and also let’s cover top with expanded glass and concrete, and let’s put wood pulp and basalt fiber rebar in ice, and
all while never counting beans, and any and all numbers are entirely pulled out of his ass
even on lesswrong the guy going through his numbers for how concrete behaves
Roko even said the ‘I think agricultural waste products like straw can be substituted for sawdust so maybe you are paid to take it off their hands.[emph mine]’ line. which is always a good sign when somebody is trying to the economically feasible math.
yeah let’s just divert entire global straw output so that Roko can build his libertarian crypto paradise
also straw is not a waste, wtf is he thinking
Maybe he was thinking of straw that has already been through the horse?
Ahh, horseshit. It is a key libertarian building block.
New form of pykrete made out of manure and ice. Eventually the Icebertarians will get use to the smell (an AI company is also working on a CRISPR fix), and with the problems of excessive manure and thus nitrate in places like the Netherlands, you are paid to take it off their hands! Win win!
A Turdburg on a turdberg. Not be a shining city on a hill, but it might have high albedo.
Oh, it would shine. Like shit on a barn door.
heh
@Soyweiser Why not make pykrete out of neoreactionaries?
They’d have to classify a proportion of themselves as subhuman first, and then they could make history’s most literal implementation of the mudsill theory.
Time to Cronenberg it up. Anybody want a new appartment in Roko the skyscraper? Long live the new flesh! No pets!
I’m ded
Next time I’m first going to look up the quote (which is apparently 'Long live the new flesh!") before posting, but you have immortalized my error. :)
It’s hard for me to even imagine a more apt description of a privileged silver-spoon moron than thinking straw is waste and people would pay you to get rid of it.
Human minds are amazing, I can’t even hypothesise what thought processes, if any, led him there
And even if it was waste, that you are planning to build megastructures with it makes it no longer waste very quickly, and as there was no demand for the product before and now it is in high demand, the price will prob do some very interesting things. A suggestion was made to use sugarcane bagasse which has no other use it seems. But that would then also quickly get a use and increase in price, which would also do things to the price of replacement products, like sawdust, or straw. And I assume that if the price of straw in the world rises a lot due to this megaconstruction a lot of farmers would be unhappy, but yeah fuck the poor countries.
Even if it was waste, the sellers would notice and start charging for it. Libertarians have a fucked up definition of what ‘waste’ also with bitcoin mining.
straw goes for something like $70-100 per ton (in poland; depends on region and other factors) sawdust is probably cheaper
Just program the godlike AI to turn everything into pykrete instead of paperclips.
Problem solved.
This is literally the dumbest shit I’ve read all week and it’s been a pretty dumb week. I’m afraid I have to diagnose Roko with having the brain scamblies. There is no cure.
Yes, good plan, the ozone layer hole craves more skin cancer sacrifices. (And don’t forget that hole is prob going to grow due to mega genius musk putting aluminum sats in the sky that burn up in high altitude)
Amusing also that nobody mentions piracy.
He does mention that you’ll need a military to defend your borders, though of course he’s more concerned about opportunistic “legacy governments” taking his iceborne super country away from him rather than pirates showing up to fish anything valuable out of the sea as it all predictably and rapidly falls apart.
Yeah this new ‘military’ setup will also quicly lead to them being seen as pirates by ‘legacy governments’ (who tend to love armed groups showing up, esp near any shipping lanes (if he wants to live anywhere away from the damaged ozone layer (the south of the south pacific seems somewhat empty at least). And the various groups of people in this new libertarian utopia (I’m going to assume it is libertarian) will surely not start preying on each other, or those nice ‘legacy’ shipping going round. At least 4 people will call themselves Ragnar Danneskjöld.
but will USN wipe out half of their fleet in a single shift if they bother commercial shipping enough? (operations room)
I meant more like treating the icelibertarians like the Houthis and tossing a few missiles into the iceskyscrapers than that kind of what I assume is USA military fanwank video.
Who needs missiles when a few parabolic mirrors will do the job?
A million red-hot tungsten balls.
Houthis have been bombed with every weapon at saudi air force disposal for almost decade by now
Yes, and they are still around, same with the Taliban, but for some reason I doubt the Icebertarians will be that anti-fragile. As soon as the first Icebertarian becomes homeless and sets up a tent they will bail. “I’m fine with them doing drugs in their homes, but now they are doing drugs and not even coding javascript! I cant bear it!”
Nah, that would only happen if they touched our boats.
Or if we thought they touched our boats.
Or if something wholly unrelated happened to one of our boats nearby and it was politically convenient to say they had touched our boats even if they didn’t actually have much reason to at the time.
Sun can’t get you if you never go outside taps noggin
Ha, do you think The Hole didn’t think of that? It consumes!
by the way, when was the last time when rats got their lives or limbs in danger by testing their stupid ideas? instead of, you know, asking someone who knows beforehand? probably something weird happened to people testing these anti-cavity bacteria, but nothing really serious i guess. that was maybe half year ago or so
Look, I already knew Roko was a moron but this is outrageous.
See what’s really fun here is that once again the libertarians are blissfully unaware of their natural predator: bears.
This is so funny. Every time they are given what they want the infrastructure crumbles to the point of being dangerous, and then the bears come to finish them off. Just ordinary bears are deadly enough for libertarians to LARP a Jurassic Park speedrun.
I guarantee that if there is a libertarian space colony, all of their life support systems will be contaminated by mutant tardigrades (aka water bears). The libertarians yearn for destruction by bears.
a story by Terence Eden
Wow, amazing story. Same thing actually happened to a friend of mine
(But srsly, I enjoyed that.)
That was a good read
Tap for spoiler
I did predict the twist, when they mentioned a completely safe quarantine zone. Nothing ever goes perfectly well with stories built on apocalyptic premises. But reading it still gave me chills. Excellent delivery.
extremely funny that none of his interlocutors bother asking what his engineering background is
careful with questions about formal education like this, you might offend Dear Leader
Don’t worry Roko has the support of the best mind of our generation behind him: Roko: “Elon is absolutely right that Tunnels[sic] would solve traffic”
E: More on the best minds, somebody in the comments : “‘it[a country selling their land to a new country] has happened’ is far less rare than CREATING the land, which has never happened.”. Are we a joke to you? [this sentence was translated from Dutch].
Yes, we’ve had vertical cities with economic class strata, but have we had frigid vertical cities with economic class strata? This is an incredible innovation in the dystopian novel genre.
@barsquid Ahem: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-Rise_(novel)
(I did NOT expect to learn that Roko is ripping off J. G. Ballard for ideas.)
also, to some extent, poul anderson’s war of the wing-men.
N = 2 (this and judge dredd) right now, but was there a rise in fiction in the 70’s/80’s where they did the ‘people live their whole lives in a skyscraper and didn’t come out’ thing? Is there some underlying societal fear I’m not super aware of? Or am I making too much of two examples?
That’d probably be Ballard trickling down into pop culture
@Soyweiser It was a bigger theme earlier: 50s/60s. Asimov, Bradbury, and I think Heinlein all used it.
I recall reading quite a few of those, but don’t recall any specific building ones, esp not which much themes of ‘people stop interacting with the outside world’.
The granddaddy of those would be E.M. Forster’s The Machine Stops, from 1909
@Soyweiser Not as a primary focus, but as a background fact, e.g. Trantor in Foundation.
The Caves of Steel was basically named for it, with a major plot point revolving around the fact that everyone is too agoraphobic to have committed the murder because of generations spent living in giant domed cities kept isolated from the natural world.
Also James Blish, in the of-their-time-but-still-worth-reading Cities in Flight series.
It was (is) a real thing that archtitects have thought about. In 1969, the concept was named arcology. I learned about them through SimCity 2000 which helped popularize the concept.
I think, culturally, it’s an offshoot of Modernist thought. One trend in modernism is that science can be used to find more efficient ways to live, and that science will lead to human dominion over all natural processes. Some thinkers took this to one (terrible) conclusion and wondered about if people could live, work, and socialize all within one building; one efficient and contained (and human controlled) space.
Real skyscrapers were often designed with this in mind, and we still see the echoes of it today with concepts for Mars colonies and hanging-building mega-cities in Tokyo.
Whittier in Alaska is mostly all in a single building.
Yes I know about archologies, but those are all just concept ideas, which is interesting that it lead to these dystopian ideas. I was wondering if there was more to it than just that.
Look up also extremely influential architect and noted fascist Le Corbusier.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unité_d'habitation
It was a huge trend after the war for a variety of economic and ideological reasons.
Welcome to Alcor Towers.
Someone send Roko a copy of James K. Morrow’s novel “Towing Jehovah” which involves the enormous corpse of God being towed, by a (much smaller) oil tanker, from near the Equator north to a fijord for burial in a cave. (I lost interest toward the end).
It’s not strictly relevant - I don’t think the crew sets up on the corpse itself - but it’d be fun to watch where Roko’s head goes.
“Step One: We kill God. Step Two: We harvest the cadaver, plastinate it, and build our city.”
I’m in for that. He can do with the corpse whatever he wants after, as long as I don’t have to see it.
Roko is of course begging the question, and the premise he is wrong about is that there is a sizable population willing to relocate to a floating iceberg, instead of living in an existing country.
Consider what the proposed citizens have to consent to:
Amusingly the solution for a libertarian city is a megastructure project probably only a rich nation is prepared to pay for.
On the other hand, no age of consent laws
Roko: I’m in.
@dgerard Seasteading 2.0 - with even *more* shit than version 1.0!