in case you wondered when Grimes was going to go full Nazi (twitter.com)
from dgerard@awful.systems to sneerclub@awful.systems on 31 Dec 2023 23:34
https://awful.systems/post/771947

I’m called a Nazi because I happily am proud of white culture. But every day I think fondly of the brown king Cyrus the Great who invented the first ever empire, and the Japanese icon Murasaki Shikibu who wrote the first novel ever. What if humans just loved each other? History teaches us that we have all been, and always will be - great

read the whole thread, her responses are even worse

#sneerclub

threaded - newest

Tar_alcaran@sh.itjust.works on 31 Dec 2023 23:49 next collapse

Weird, I’m also proud of my (white) culture, yet nobody sober and offline has ever called me a Nazi. And I don’t even have to do the “some of my best friendsinfluences are black” thing.

Cheers@sh.itjust.works on 01 Jan 2024 15:06 collapse

Just wondering, since you’re proud of white culture. What positives do you attribute to white culture as opposed to some sort of economic or political culture?

Tar_alcaran@sh.itjust.works on 01 Jan 2024 15:34 collapse

Sorry, by “(white) culture” I meant “my culture, which, for the vast majority of its history, consists of white people”.

But your question does help me see the difference between my viewpoint and hers.

zogwarg@awful.systems on 01 Jan 2024 00:13 next collapse

No empire was ever born before 600 BCE (no no, the egyptians don’t count), and no clear works of fiction, intended mostly to be dessiminated thorugh text ever existed before the 11th Century (You can dismiss anything prior as mere works of philosophy, poetry or mythology)

grumpybozo@toad.social on 01 Jan 2024 17:24 next collapse

@zogwarg Bronze Age Empires:

Hittite
Minoan
Mycenaean (briefly but opportunistically picking up the very wet Minoan pieces after the Thera eruption & tsunami.)
Old Babylonia (i.e. not the Neo-Babylonians who revered that past)

Given their intermittent hegemony over Kush and Canaan, I don’t agree that Egypt doesn’t count as an empire. One can also make such a case for Zhou-era China, particularly before its splintering into the “Warring States” interregnum.

zogwarg@awful.systems on 02 Jan 2024 15:43 collapse

To name only but a few.

pikesley@mastodon.me.uk on 02 Jan 2024 15:47 collapse

@zogwarg @dgerard Are you trying to tell me that a woman who was briefly shacked-up with renowned Super Brain Genius Elon Musk has what appears to amount to a child's understanding of things?

[deleted] on 01 Jan 2024 00:22 next collapse

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[deleted] on 01 Jan 2024 00:27 next collapse

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ultranaut@lemmy.world on 01 Jan 2024 00:53 next collapse

Yes, if you are a “white pride” kind of person people are probably going to call you a Nazi. Thats exactly how it works.

I’m skeptical she thinks of Cyrus the Great every day but I hope it’s true because it’s really funny.

AllNewTypeFace@leminal.space on 01 Jan 2024 01:00 collapse

Alphas think of the Roman Empire every day. Sigmas, however, think instead of Cyrus the Great.

jonhendry@awful.systems on 01 Jan 2024 01:00 next collapse

Why the hell would anyone think about Cyrus the Great every day, let alone fondly.

acb@mastodon.social on 01 Jan 2024 01:22 next collapse

Isn’t he the one that the US Religious Right used as a rationalisation for a philandering president being an instrument of God?

carlitoscohones@awful.systems on 02 Jan 2024 15:48 collapse

Someone minted a souvenir half-shekel coin with both Trump and Cyrus on it. Heads, you lose.

gerikson@awful.systems on 02 Jan 2024 17:47 collapse

“Thanks” for introducing me to a new level of insanity: temple-coins.com/…/copy-of-trump-and-bibi-netanya… (Cyrus is on the obverse, so there’s some weird right-wing Israeli hangup on him too)

Edit here’s the link to the abomination above and more

www.temple-coins.com/collections/temple-coins

carlitoscohones@awful.systems on 03 Jan 2024 14:28 collapse

here’s the link to the abomination above and more

The one about sending fire to break down the walls of Gaza looks a little creepy, with people dancing on top of the wall. Released in July of 2023.

bitofhope@awful.systems on 01 Jan 2024 16:50 collapse

Please note that empires were actually invented by A Brown, of whom I think fondly every day. Therefore I am not a nazi.

JoMiran@lemmy.ml on 01 Jan 2024 01:09 next collapse

Always screenshot.

<img alt="" src="https://lemmy.ml/pictrs/image/a129523c-ef09-466d-aa4b-8344253606f0.png">

<img alt="" src="https://lemmy.ml/pictrs/image/f52e250d-3c6f-4b85-842f-4ae341339711.png">

JoMiran@lemmy.ml on 01 Jan 2024 01:19 next collapse

I mean, I get what her stupid ass is trying to say but all she is doing is showcasing white privilege. Only someone who lives and has lived a privileged life can unironically try to gloss over the systematic oppression or annihilation of entire groups of people, especially as it continues today.

Bringing up the ancient slav slave trade and pretend there is some sort of equivalence to ongoing repercussions of slavery in america is peak out of touch.

jonhendry@awful.systems on 01 Jan 2024 02:16 next collapse

The African slave trade of slavs? I think she means Arab. Or Arab/Muslim-osphere.

I wouldn’t think sub-Saharan Africans ran a lot of ships up to the Baltic or the Black Sea to capture slavs for enslavement. Ottomans, yes. Barbary pirates, perhaps. Of course some of the most prominent of the Barbary pirates were actually raised Christian or Jewish in Europe, and joined the pirates as adults.

And I wouldn’t be surprised at all if Europeans also captured slavs for sale to the Ottomans.

sc_griffith@awful.systems on 01 Jan 2024 02:42 collapse

alt girl amazes fans by posting on twitter in PERFECT nazi

self@awful.systems on 01 Jan 2024 01:14 next collapse

nitter

swlabr@awful.systems on 01 Jan 2024 01:55 next collapse

She’s 35 and her sum total understanding of culture and race has lead to this. I think she has been effectively a Nazi from way back.

acb@mastodon.social on 01 Jan 2024 02:01 next collapse

OTOH, she also has said things like that she’s a socialist but believes in free markets rather than government intervention, so it’s probably fair to say that she’s not the sharpest egg in the attic

self@awful.systems on 01 Jan 2024 02:12 next collapse

she’s a lying fascist. “nah I’m actually the socialists and here’s what real socialism looks like” is one of the oldest moves in the fascist playbook. she’s very bad at it, but it still did its job and convinced a lot of folks who don’t know any better that she was the leftist who would fix musk by giving him dmt or whatever

swlabr@awful.systems on 01 Jan 2024 02:59 collapse

Real socialism has a little nationalism in it

Omega_Haxors@lemmy.ml on 01 Jan 2024 05:40 collapse

Key exception when that nationalism is resisting imperialism, like in Vietnam.

swlabr@awful.systems on 01 Jan 2024 06:00 collapse

(yes, tho i was more making a joke about how “nazism” is shorthand for “national socialism”)

swlabr@awful.systems on 01 Jan 2024 03:06 next collapse

Ok sure, so she’s an idiot nazi then, and has been for a while.

_thebrain_@lemmy.dbzer0.com on 01 Jan 2024 03:17 collapse

Can you honestly say there is any other kind of nazi?

swlabr@awful.systems on 01 Jan 2024 03:27 next collapse

I really do want to participate in this snark and agree, but unfortunately there are at least two kinds of nazis: credulous folk (like grimes) that lack the wherewithal to critically assess fascist ideology, and people ideologically motivated to be nazis (e.g. rich capitalists), who can be “smart”, for many definitions/synonyms of smart.

dgerard@awful.systems on 01 Jan 2024 18:54 collapse
sc_griffith@awful.systems on 01 Jan 2024 03:56 next collapse

unfortunately I don’t think being smart does anything to prevent people from going fash

skillissuer@discuss.tchncs.de on 01 Jan 2024 15:17 collapse

plenty of non-dumb/capable in some way nazis out there unfortunately

like Thiel

locallynonlinear@awful.systems on 01 Jan 2024 04:44 collapse

I think, I feel sorry for her, in the kind of I don’t really endorse or have anything to do with sort of way.

She is the limit of what happens when you idolize certain people, are betrayed by certain people, and never grow from that experience.

dgerard@awful.systems on 01 Jan 2024 18:54 collapse

you’d think she was some sort of trust fund baby artist white woman

self@awful.systems on 01 Jan 2024 01:58 next collapse

how dare people call me, grimes, a nazi? they’ll be eating their words when they see me post the exact same racist justifications in the same tone as a chan fascist trying to trick teenagers

it’s intensely obvious that grimes has always been fascist trash. I’m hoping she becomes a prime example of what a fascist looks like when they’re lying about being a leftist to manipulate their audience, but unfortunately the most common take I’ve seen is that musk somehow corrupted her into sounding like someone who’s spent decades absorbing and agreeing with the worst people on the internet? so I’m not betting that folks will get better at spotting this type of shit early

bitofhope@awful.systems on 01 Jan 2024 18:24 collapse

It’s strange that someone can sound so much like they spent their late 20s binging Carl Benjamin videos yet be unaware of empires predating the Persian one.

self@awful.systems on 01 Jan 2024 02:16 next collapse

I wanna be, wanna be software but specifically, AI death god, could I please be reincarnated as an image board famous for hosting CSAM and nazis? thx luv u

swlabr@awful.systems on 01 Jan 2024 15:12 collapse

I’d like to be/written in C/In a Roko info-hazard/in the Bay -Grimesgo Starr

bitofhope@awful.systems on 01 Jan 2024 17:03 collapse

Gringo*

itsgroundhogdayagain@lemmy.ml on 01 Jan 2024 02:51 next collapse

This is Elmo’s baby mamma?

GentlemanLoser@ttrpg.network on 01 Jan 2024 05:20 collapse

One of several, yeah

TinyTimmyTokyo@awful.systems on 01 Jan 2024 06:44 next collapse

Imagine thinking there is actually some identifiable thing called “white culture”. As if a skin color defines a culture.

Yeah, sounds like a Nazi.

swlabr@awful.systems on 01 Jan 2024 07:11 next collapse

There’s a lot of stupidity to unpack in that first tweet.

  • “I’m called a Nazi” honestly first I’m hearing of it, so to me this is self identification
  • “White culture” I imagine grimes here is saying “anything that someone who would at first glance look like a modern white person has done in all of history”
  • “Brown king Cyrus the Great” I’m not racist because one of the historical figures i think about every day is brown!
  • “who invented the first empire” ah yeah he MacGuyver’d one together with pure brown ingenuity, sticktoitiveness, and a plastic straw
  • “Japanese icon Murasaki Shikibu[‘s] … first novel ever” tangent: perhaps this is just my own brand of degeneracy on display here: grimes is referring to “The Tale of Genji”, which I mainly know about because some of the core relationships in the book revolve around adults grooming their wards into spouses (it was a different time), which has popped up nowadays in the discourse of some fiction coming out of Japan (see Usagi Drop). So I’m tempted to project onto grimes a veneration for grooming, which kinda tracks, but it’s a stretch.
  • “What if humans just loved each other?” You’re like 3 years late to former IDF member Gal Gadot’s imagine video

Gotta love the way that TESCREALnts write and how they have a tendency to generate fractally stupid things like this. There’s so much more you could say. Basically, if I could say “that’s not how any of this works” to Grimes, I would.

mctoasterson@reddthat.com on 01 Jan 2024 14:16 next collapse

The implication that there is or has ever been a monolithic “white culture” is idiotic. It is one of those assertions where the left and right horseshoe towards falsehood and depravity. That is to say both the Klan and extreme progressives agree there is a magic all encompassing definition of “whiteness”.

This concept itself is racist because it assumes Ashkenazi Jewish, Nordic, Russian, and Irish cultures are identical in some way, when they obviously aren’t. “The shared amount of relative pigmentation in skin” doesn’t culturally unite people, nor does it account for their shared values and traditions, or lack thereof.

SkipHuffman@astrodon.social on 01 Jan 2024 15:50 next collapse

@mctoasterson @dgerard the only thing white people have in common is high albedo.

bitofhope@awful.systems on 01 Jan 2024 16:34 next collapse

I understand how “white” become the word for a sort of assumed racial default, but it’s really annoying to have to play this weird motte-and-bailey when people don’t understand or pretend not to understand that whiteness is not about skin pigmentation and never was. Wanna check my skin on a Pantone chart againts Hitler’s and then guess which one of us he thought was merely an “honorary aryan”?

I wish we had a better word for it.

dgerard@awful.systems on 01 Jan 2024 18:53 collapse

“Italian” was excluded from “white” in the US in living memory

gentooer@programming.dev on 01 Jan 2024 19:08 next collapse

I mean, we don’t consider Italians white too over here, but we also don’t think there’s some kind of “white culture”. I’m Flemish and that’s my culture, and it’s definitely not the same as any other Western European culture.

[deleted] on 02 Jan 2024 00:10 collapse

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aaronm@mastodon.cc on 01 Jan 2024 23:36 next collapse

@mctoasterson @dgerard and it doesn’t even acknowledge the changing boundaries of “white”. The Irish weren’t white in America for decades. Jews weren’t white until post-wwii when “polite antisemitism “ became tainted and had to be discarded in the face of the civil rights movement.

Shitgenstein1@awful.systems on 02 Jan 2024 18:59 next collapse

extreme progressives agree there is a magic all encompassing definition of “whiteness”.

What do you mean by this? Speaking for myself, what I’ve read on the left with respect to “whiteness” has been largely critical of the concept, e.g. that it exists by its function to other and marginalize those deemed non-white. Who are you talking about on the left that affirms a non-reductive concept of whiteness? Because it sounds like you’re both-sides-ing out of ignorance.

self@awful.systems on 02 Jan 2024 20:01 collapse

It is one of those assertions where the left and right horseshoe towards falsehood and depravity

just wait til they whip out their horseshoe-shaped chart. then you’ll understand that one mastodon ancom is exactly equal to one nazi skinhead in terms of both falsehood and depravity

[deleted] on 06 Jan 2024 07:10 collapse

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bitofhope@awful.systems on 01 Jan 2024 14:44 next collapse

Me, a nazi? Preposterous, no nazi would idolize ancient warlords or cultural works from Japan.

dgerard@awful.systems on 01 Jan 2024 17:10 next collapse

I remember reading a story where a solid boot-neo-Nazi idolised Zulu warriors, then finding out that idolising Zulu warriors was an OG Nazi thing

maol@awful.systems on 04 Jan 2024 01:24 collapse

Leni Riefenstahl went off to like Sudan after the war to photograph indigenous people there.

Crack0n7uesday@lemmy.world on 02 Jan 2024 20:37 collapse

Hitler was pretty jealous of the Japanese ethnostate that came after decades of their trade embargos.

swlabr@awful.systems on 01 Jan 2024 15:13 next collapse

<img alt="" src="https://awful.systems/pictrs/image/fa85ef8d-1a39-43b9-b1d4-d9f9bba35ea2.jpeg">

Haha did one of us update this? I am on mobile and can’t be bothered checking the edit logs

trashpanda_x@umbraxenu.no-ip.biz on 01 Jan 2024 16:40 next collapse

@dgerard A shallow flash card version of history, oddly excluding the Egyptians, and probably others, from "first ever empire", but racists are always strange about who they let in or kick out of their clubhouse.

gerikson@awful.systems on 01 Jan 2024 17:22 next collapse

tbf Cyrus the Great was Aryan AF

dgerard@awful.systems on 01 Jan 2024 17:32 next collapse

white culture

personality like lutefisk

fasterandworse@awful.systems on 01 Jan 2024 19:06 next collapse

I don’t trust musicians that I learn about via something other than their music and even after 4 years of knowing who they are I remain uncurious to sample any of the music they have created.

If a musician’s music is never heard, are they still a musician? If they are not a musician, and not a nazi, then what are they?

carlitoscohones@awful.systems on 02 Jan 2024 15:21 next collapse

Interesting point. I listen to virtually every kind of music that there is and my only interaction with Grimes has been to backspace over the “s” as I search for grime music like Manga Saint Hilaire or whatever. For a long time, Courtney Love was in this state for me, but I eventually listened to a little of her stuff.

acausal_masochist@awful.systems on 02 Jan 2024 18:26 collapse

Hole is actually great. A big portion of modern indie rock owes a lot to them IMO.

Shitgenstein1@awful.systems on 02 Jan 2024 19:32 collapse

in contrast, I did not forsee the trajectory of Grimes’ views and personal life events after finding “Oblivion” to be a bop in 2012

counteractor@mastodon.social on 04 Jan 2024 14:07 collapse

@Shitgenstein1 But in retrospect…

naevaTheRat@lemmy.dbzer0.com on 01 Jan 2024 22:41 next collapse

Ridiculous takes from children on the internet throwing a tantrum aside nobody I’ve ever known has been accused of being a Nazi.

Which is not to say I’ve only known good people; rather that you can behave in some pretty odious ways and people still distinguish between racist shitbag and Nazi.

So umm what the fuck are people that complain about being called Nazi’s admitting to? If they’re actually being called out it’s sure as shit not because they like cathedrals and soccer or whatever.

bitofhope@awful.systems on 01 Jan 2024 23:09 collapse

I’m just assuming it was in fact just a ridiculous take from a child throwing a tantrum because it makes the whole “I’m not a nazi, BUT…” bit that much more unprompted and funnier.

Like I know famous people get all kinds of bizarre shit on the internet but if some rando DM’d to call me a nazi I would simply choose not to let the public know I actually just love white culture.

naevaTheRat@lemmy.dbzer0.com on 01 Jan 2024 23:20 collapse

That would be pretty hilarious. someone’s like “hey Billy, check out this prank: @Grimes you’re a Nazi” and she reads it and involuntarily starts shouting “Arbeit Macht Frei”

Soyweiser@awful.systems on 02 Jan 2024 14:27 next collapse

It is sad both, our lack of good high quality LW-space sneers so we are falling back on sneering at Musk-space sneers, and the fact that for all her proto-white nationalist white exceptional racism she cannot even pick the common LW type ones, makes me wonder if she just has never heard of HBD yet, or didn’t get it. Also makes me wonder if she is aware of the white nationalist trick people like Jared Taylor like to pull. Talks a lot about white culture, and only scarcely mention that he thinks white culture is a product of genetics. I also will not call her a nazi, as I think the tragic time of the nazis is over, and we are now in the farce era of the neo-nazis. ;). (Also I can be a bit pedantic and not sure this is enough yet, but sadly I often am proven wrong about these kinds of things).

Reminds me of how Musk has read/heard about some of the AGI LW stuff but just simply doesn’t seem to get the complex parts of it, so he starts to say making AGI not kill humanity is easy just program it to have soft hands and not kill everybody.

dgerard@awful.systems on 02 Jan 2024 17:49 next collapse

oh I’ve found many fine sneers right there on LW, but I think this one is good enough for sheer prominence.

i would not assume Grimes was aware of things or had what could meaningfully be called political opinions

Soyweiser@awful.systems on 03 Jan 2024 15:41 collapse

Yeah, I didn’t mean it as a bad sneer, I meant it more like how incredibly bad Musk/Grimes etc are at the basics of all this. LW stuff needs you to read and dig, and they just go ‘well im a socialist, I just don’t believe workers should have any power’. (does explain why the lowest common denom cryptocoin scammers target musk fans).

locallynonlinear@awful.systems on 02 Jan 2024 18:24 collapse

Talk a lot about white culture, and only scarcely mention that he thinks white culture is a product of genetics.

I remember in the early days of the “culture wars” as far as political agendas going, hearing about “white/ethno-european pride,” and being naively curious, I actually tried to engage these people on the topics of European culture and history, and found exactly zero engagement on these topics. Just politics abusing people’s confusion of heritage with people’s internal shame and lack of identity.

The paradox I’ve always found is that the more secure in your identity and heritage you are, the more happy you are to share, grow, and widen that. Maybe a hot take, but growing up in the south, alot of people there hide their personal internal shame and confusion in aggression and identity politics.

Soyweiser@awful.systems on 03 Jan 2024 13:23 collapse

There was the white nationalist guy who when asked about which white culture should be saved just said ‘metallica’ which always struck me as typical.

[deleted] on 25 Jan 2024 13:22 collapse

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